Gerson Martínez: "Things have to change and I know what to do" - ElFaro.net

"If it's legal, correct and possible, go ahead," reads a sign at the entrance to the office of Gerson Martínez, the Minister of Public Works who has already been in office for seven years and sounds strong as one of his party's bets to seeking to win the presidency of the country for the third consecutive time. Martínez says that a common good in this government is transparency, but when asked why the Sánchez Cerén government has not wanted to reveal the information on the trips that former President Funes made during his five-year term, nor the individual amounts of publicity of the The government responds that it cannot comment on a case that it does not know in depth. He presents himself as "the citizen's bricklayer" and, with euphemisms, says he is prepared to compete for the presidency of El Salvador, and has figures in his favor: Martínez is today one of the officials best evaluated by the population.

He was in charge of intelligence for the majority Popular Forces of Liberation, the bard of the FMLN commanders. Today he is a moderate who, in this interview, presents himself as a critic who has transparency as his battle flag.

In this interview, Martínez, director of the government plan of President Salvador Sánchez Cerén, acknowledges that three of the projects that the FMLN has used as a banner will not be fully implemented by 2019: education will not reach 6% of GDP, SITRAMSS will not be completed, and the "one child, one computer" Program will not cover all schools in the country. Martínez also defends the steps of this government in terms of security. He says that criminal groups have never been so attacked in what he calls "a battle without quarter."

In 2012, the government said that it was going to inaugurate SITRAMSS at the beginning of 2014. In 2014, Vice President Óscar Ortiz promised that it would be ready in December 2014. The first section was inaugurated at the beginning of 2015. When will we see SITRAMSS finished? ?Changing a 200-year-old system is not a five-year project. None of the world's BRTs have been built in five or ten years. They have been processes. It is like Rome, which was not built in ten years. The BRTs are conceived as a system that crosses the city and that has to become a kind of mobility network in the city.

How long would it take to build this? From San Martín to Santa Tecla and from Apopa to the San Marcos area. How long will it take for the country to develop that? It will depend on many factors. The problem is that BRTs have been talked about since the 1960s, but due to the difficulties involved, no one wanted to bell the cat.

The finished section, from the Army Boulevard to El Salvador del Mundo, how much does it correspond to? It's the first stammer. It is the first step of a child who has to walk and who has to grow up and that child could be knocked down by hostility or misunderstanding.

He says he is "a child who could be brought down" What does he mean He has been subjected to a terrible campaign. There have been sectors interested in overthrowing, in spoiling SITRAMSS. Remember that, unfortunately, the public transport system of buses and minibuses, with few honorable exceptions, has been a very corrupt system and has worked with the law of the jungle. Changing that is not easy. A system that has been used to living by fleecing the population through a subsidy of more than 70 million dollars. It was an abusive, corrupt, polluting system, that is what is being changed. The engines that SITRAMSS has are state-of-the-art engines, which result in lower emissions of carcinogenic gases.

Why was the study on the SITRAMSS payment system, the SUBES model, declared as reserved information? We are seven years old with zero information reservations. This office has not authorized any reservation of information neither to the citizens nor to the press.

There is a reserve of information on the SUBES collection model. This office has given nothing. In the transparency law there are two types of information, reserved and confidential. Confidentiality is protected by the constitution and the law that has to do with the information of private citizens. In other words, your personal information is protected, and if an official reveals your personal information, he commits a crime. This office has not authorized any reservation of information.

Do you think that the SUBES collection model should be public? Totally. Everything that is public, has a public character, has to be, by definition, public.

Which office is responsible for this? You have to check because it is public, it has to be public.

But I ask you the question: is the SUBES collection model private? The collection model? The model itself is protected by the State and, therefore, there is a public interest in the middle and in the center that must be protected. What is a private that provides a public service? that information is public. For example, the MOP hires a builder, we as a ministry provide a public service, but that private contractor who is going to carry out a public work, at the moment he signs a contract becomes a public servant and therefore that information has to be of the public domain.

Does all SUBES information correspond to the MOP? I want to tell you something, the Vice Ministry of Transportation (VMT) is an entity attached [to the MOP] but it has its own organic law, its own regulations, this minister does not have a single power legal regarding permits, licenses, lines, however, here is a thing of principles. Those services provided by the State and the private sector that are public, your information for me must be public.

Are you the official who could explain to us what role SUBES plays in SITRAMSS? It is up to the VMT.

Has the MOP not authorized SUBES contracts? We do not have the power to do so. However, if you need information regarding that, from my office we provide you with the information with the VMT.

Alba has participated in SUBES through its legal representative Mauricio Cortez Avelar, who also appears as representatives of other Alba group companies associated with his party. Has the party or someone in your party or close to Alba influenced your hiring? I don't know who Mr. Cortez Avelar is, but I want to tell him that if he is in the private sphere, that is private. State institutions are not making investments in buses, private buses, that is a matter of the private sphere.

In the event that, for example, people from Alba, would like to influence, does it go through your office or through the VMT? If it is public works contracting, in the end things come to be signed by the minister. If it is a private matter between private parties, that is a matter of the domain of the private economy.

We are talking about public works. How much is SUBES being monitored by the VMT or by the MOP? SUBES, I understand that it is an entity, a corporation, private, the same as all transportation services, and those are strictly the domain and competence of the VMT, which is the one that authorizes contracts and concessions. For example, the State is the owner of the lines, so whoever has the power to make concessions according to the law is the VMT, not the MOP.

The VMT is attached to the MOP. The VMT is a deputy ministry but it functions as an attached entity, almost as if it were quasi independent, relatively. There are autonomous organizations like FOVIAL that have their own public-private government, although it is different there because the minister chairs that council. But in the case of the VMT, all the laws and regulations on licenses and on this type of thing are exclusive, they are exclusive to the VMT.

There are Alba companies that are companies related to the FMLN. How should Alba's relationship with the government be approached? Have you ever been approached to favor an Alba company in a contract? And what do you think?

I don't know. In general, I don't know if you saw the entrance to my office.

Yes it's a signNo no it's not a sign It is a conduct, a practice, a public policy. What it says at the entrance to my office is "if it's legal, correct and possible, go ahead", then no, the institution has no relationship with Alba companies in public business. In general, remember that when I came here this ministry was trapped in a jungle of corruption lawsuits and had a debt of 39.6 million convictions for acts of corruption and that type of thing. We have been over seven years with zero trials for corruption complaints and zero debts.

So... The citizen is not going to have to pay a penny for any irregularity committed by this minister, but in the past I have heard politicians or officials say they have put pressure on me, that I have been put under pressure... I think that who is subjected to pressure is because he is pressurizable. This minister is not pushable, and I want to tell him that of all the entities that are related to us, until today at least, no one has ever come to raise something wrong, and neither has Alba.

Today let's talk about honesty. Leaders of his party believe that the trials being promoted by the Supreme Court of Justice are part of a political persecution plan against former presidents. Do you believe that too? El Salvador is going through a transition, an institutional transition, a political transition, a cultural transition and possibly a moral transition. We come from the culture of corruption and opacity, from the colonial state until now.

Seven years of transition? Certainly... no, we have been in a transition since the Peace Accords, which is the democratic transition. It is a good sign that during our administrations, for the first time in the country's history, there is a transparency law and critical citizenship is growing. And I believe that it is a public good that the institutionality works. Justice cannot be a cyclops that sees only to one side. Either everyone on the floor, or everyone in bed.

Do you believe that the illicit enrichment trials of former presidents is something positive for the country? Throughout the transition and since my tenure as a deputy, I have always supported the probity section. Forever. When all the officials of Flores in that government prevented the citizens and the probity section from knowing the information, their bank accounts, the mismatches between their growth in assets and their real income, I accompanied the Probity section and I always accompany it. The strengthening and functioning of the Integrity section is important. One has to trust that the institutions are going to act under ethical standards as well.

Norma Guevara, Santiago Flores and other leaders have spoken about political persecution and an orchestrated plan by the right to persecute certain politicians. Do you think differently from the majority of the leaders of your party? I have an affiliation and a creed. I have a conscience and a conduct. My conduct speaks for me. My word is critical and my conduct is also critical.

With your party? I have an affiliation. I am honored to be a member of the FMLN and I believe that my party has historically represented, and must continue to represent, the difference with traditional and corrupt politicians. I think so.

Since the FMLN has been emphatic that there is now more transparency in the government, why hasn't information been given about the trips of former presidents or about the advertising expenses of President Funes? of public money is President Sánchez Cerén, and if a government policy is promoted in this sense, it is the policy of President Salvador Sánchez Cerén. What it is about, I understand, is information from the previous government. I do not know the details, but what I have understood from the transparency secretary is that certain duly signed information was not found. I believe that it is a virtue when a public servant tells the truth of what he has found. He has said that if that is so and if there is documentation that does not exist, that it would have to be reported to the Attorney General's Office, that was not the conduct of past governments.

What happens is the attitude, minister. It seems that this government refuses to give information that is public, you say that you are convinced that trips should be public. Not only do I have the conviction, if you go to the web page, I understand that the document you are requesting is on the web.

It seems that the government does refuse to deliver certain information. But we are talking about information or a document related to travel. I understand that information is on the website.

We want you to speak out, or feel a position regarding the attitude of denying information. I speak on facts.

At the hearing of the Institute for Access to Information in December 2014, the representative of President Sánchez Cerén had to appear because a citizen had requested this information and was denied. And it's good that citizens can now request information because in the past they made citizens believe that public information was secret.

In that hearing, the representative of President Sánchez Cerén said that free competition weighed more than access to information and that, for example, information on the advertising expenses of President Funes' five-year term could not be given because it could affect to the market. Well, I don't know him. There are always assets to protect. A good is the interests of the private. But there is another good that is the public good that is always superior. I don't know the details, however, my perspective is that all matters of the domain and administration of the State have to be public.

And it is that now they have declared that the documents that were denied in 2014 no longer exist... I trust that if the authorities of the Secretariat of Transparency say that the information was not found, that is so, and, consequently, that the institutionality that in the past was drowned by corrupt mafias works. It's good that these things can now be aired. How good that you can come here to the Public Works office to ask, to inquire about this, how good that critical citizens and the critical press can now express themselves.

Let's move on to another topic. Let's talk about the country we live in. According to the UNDP, 60,000 people flee the country every year. What do you think of those who flee violence? Well, that has been a very old story. Remember that when we arrived, there were already practically 6 million Salvadorans in the interior and there were almost 3 million residing abroad. That is a historically entrenched reality that must be changed. Before, they emigrated due to economic exhaustion, due to the lack of opportunities. Today it is primarily the issue of violence. There is always a task of the State to solve.

And in that sense, how is the work of this government? We have been governed by the FMLN for seven years. Is it a failure not to be able to stop this flow of migrants? Judge as a critical journalist, about ten or twelve years ago there was an unstoppable wave of kidnappings. That stopped. The wave of extortions was much greater, they always exist, but it has been reduced. The issue with which accounts must be settled today is that of homicides. Here the important thing is the following: never in history, never, were the Police and the Armed Forces more mobilized on the territories. Never has the open fight against crime been more forceful than now.

Do you consider it positive that it is necessary to take the Armed Forces out into the streets? Well, if the circumstances are extraordinary in relation to the threat to life, do you think that having armed forces that can support the police should not be used? I think so. The key here is that the one who should lead the frontal attack on crime and the defeat of crime should be the police, but the armed forces, in my opinion, should turn to support. As long as there is a life in danger, the State must do everything that the institutional framework and the Rule of Law allow.

CRAP!! I don't enev know how to convert from binary to decimal :( #EpicFailure

— AmaWoman Wed Jan 30 12:26:53 +0000 2013

Going back to people who are leaving the country, what would you say to a person who is thinking of leaving their home for fear of being killed in a high-risk area, ruled by gangs? To turn to the authorities, to trust community policing. There are mechanisms of the anti-extortion department that have been very effective, accompanying the police in the fight.

Óscar Martínez, a journalist for El Faro, witnessed how a community fled from the gang siege. The head of the anti-gang unit came basically to pray to the community, to accompany them on their flight. The important thing here is that the crime prevention policy must remain the country's first priority. The rehabilitation and resocialization policy, and at the center of all this, no respite for criminals. That is what this government stands for. Zero concessions to crime. Zero. And, of course, the offender reacts but crime has never been attacked like now that there is a real battle without quarter against him.

And that battle without quarter is what has caused the average number of homicides to rise to 23 and massacres such as the one of the 11 Opico workers. And what do you think? That the outing of the police to attack crime is what causes that? Or is it the departure of the armed forces?

That is the thesis that has been defended from the government. That this rise in homicides and the massacres that have occurred are a response from the gangs when they feel attacked. Well, there have been statements to that effect from the gangs themselves, that they wanted another deal with kid gloves, truces and privileges. No more concessions and privileges for criminals, zero (the minister bangs on the table emphasizing his words) Zero! (another blow to the table) and we hope that the country joins us (another blow) Zero concessions to crime of all kinds and to organized crime mafias and also to the corrupt!

Do you think the strategy is correct? that is, do you think this is the result or the effect of something that is going to take us on a better course? And do you think that stopping the merciless battle against crime is going to solve it?

We have to fight crime but... Do you think we have to loosen up the battle?

No, but where is the police intelligence? You don't just have to talk, intelligence has to be done and I think that there has to be a leap, from my point of view the intelligence strategy is the combination of all intelligences. Police intelligence, military intelligence, state intelligence, and popular intelligence must be combined.

What I am telling you is that they killed these workers in Opico and the police carried out an operation and arrested eighty people. None of those people is accused of killing those eleven workers. I know of cases where basically anyone is grabbed and perhaps people who had nothing to do with it pay. That's a problem. First time I've heard that innocent people pay. When these types of raids take place, the police capture the people they already have mapped. A crime that needs further investigation is not necessarily solved in the first action.

Minister, we recently published the case of an operation in which the police killed a factory employee who had nothing to do with it. I am not aware of that.

You are going to tell me "it is a case, it is not systematic", but we already have two cases and is that a frontal war against crime? You think so? I do not. In any case, these may be mistakes in a merciless battle against crime. I don't think that a mistake by a police officer should be understood as strategy, nor do I think that you do.

It seems like a war in which there is no planning, that there is no strategic plan to target the people who have committed the crime. In other words, do you think that all the mobilization of the armed forces and the police lacks a plan and a strategy?

No. I believe that it is not fair for a person to be killed and that the police cannot kill indiscriminately. I think the same as you, but we are talking about two different things. If you ask me if the mistake of a policeman before an innocent person is correct, I say no. Is it a strategy? No. Nobody can honestly think that, but from there to pretend that the battle against crime is loosened, we are not going to do that. In any case, if there are mistakes, the institutional framework works, but the battle must not be slackened.

Another example. When the journalists spoke with Vice President Óscar Ortiz, he replied that the massacre in Opico was normal. Don't you think it's wrong to give such statements? An act of violence can never be part of normality. Because there is an extraordinary threat, there is an extraordinary battle. The threat to life is the worst abnormality that a society can experience.

Mayor Nayib Bukele wrote on his official Facebook page an invitation to the president to recognize that the course and security strategy is not giving results. He says that after seven years it is not worth saying that it is giving results. What the Police and the Armed Forces are doing is giving the hardest battle of our troops against crime. And I believe that the Police, the State and the armed forces cannot be distracted from that battle. We have to continue.

You believe that the security authorities are heading in the right direction, that we will end up on the right track at the end of I don't know how long. Life is not a black and white movie. Look around you and look outside, you register many colors. This is a battle that is not defined but it is a battle that is taking place and with the highest morale.

Let's talk about your party. The FMLN has spoken of political renewal with the formation of its new Political Commission and we want to know who the new young political class of the FMLN is. Are Miguel Pereira and Nayib Bukele the representation of the young FMLN politician? I believe that politicians should not be a class. They must become servants.

And of the young FMLN servants, who would be a good example for the country? I believe that the president of the foreign relations commission, Karina Sosa, is a young and talented woman.

You are a historical leader of the party, tell us how you see the future of the new leaders in the FMLN. Do Nayib Bukele or Miguel Pereira represent the other generation? Look, there is a very large generation of young people in the FMLN. The FMLN is a very large party and a large part of its muscles and also its head are young. The vitality of a party is in the wise combination between the experience of the older ones and the wisdom of the new ones.

What names of young people can you give me who have a decision-making capacity or weighty opinion within the party? The six or seven members of the youth in the Political Commission of the Party.

Charlín Zúniga for example? Yes, he directs the youth movement. Someone who leads a youth movement as large as the FMLN, must be for a reason.

What we also want is for you to tell us if you really recognize the leadership won by Bukele. Or Miguel Pereira, who took the reins of the San Miguel mayor's office from Wil Salgado, do we have to evaluate them as inside the party or as leaders with whom the FMLN has a kind of association? Look, life is not speculative. Life speaks for itself. For several years now, the FMLN has had the practice of nominating both natural FMLN leaders and non-FMLN leaders for public service. We had Dr. Silva in the mayor's office of San Salvador, who was an atypical leader within the FMLN. That is not new. Or Miguel Pereira, also seems to me an atypical leader. What is reality saying? That the FMLN is a closed party or an open party? The FMLN is an open party.

How would you characterize the next presidential candidate of the FMLN? I believe that a human being loyal to public faith is needed. Loyal to the citizen. Of course, to that you can add talented, honest, hard-working, selfless, self-sacrificing, honest and transparent people, but I believe that the mother of all virtues is loyalty to the citizen to the last consequences.

The March survey of LPG data places you as the best evaluated official in the cabinet, even over Vice President Óscar Ortiz, will you do something with that political capital that you have in the presidential election? It is the first survey, since the previous government, in which similar data appear. And I have always answered that I accepted a service task, I am dedicated to public service, to my tasks. I find those politicians who have not finished their work when they are already speculating for other positions seem quite detestable.

Who are you referring to? Those types of politicians who have discredited politics, so I'm not into speculation. I don't fall for the vain either. I appreciate the generosity of citizens, and if you review the interviews, whenever I have been asked if I am satisfied with my administration, I have always started by saying no, because complacency is one of the greatest flaws of politicians. Our public works management is not perfect. If this were believed, we would begin to be decadent. Our principle is "today better than yesterday and, God first, tomorrow better than today".

But his party considers him presidential, or not? Let the party speak, let the militancy speak. The party has given me a service task and I'm on it.

Would you like to be president of the country? I want to tell you honestly, I believe that almost any Salvadoran man or woman would like to lead their country. And especially if there are great challenges. I believe that it is a legitimate aspiration of any Salvadoran, the sin is when some individual turns a legitimate aspiration into an ambition at any cost and is capable of lying based on that, of becoming a falsifier and of selling his grandmother in order to do that and cannibalizing their parties, deceiving the people. No. That's what needs to change.

Who is the minister referring to? (Laughter) That is what has discredited politics in the world, in Latin America and also in the country. Things have to change and I must tell you that I know what to do.

Let's keep talking about El Salvador. The FMLN promised to make the education budget reach six points of GDP, now it is at 3.47 and poverty increased by 2.3 points in 2014. Do you think that the party's flag is going to have a good chance of winning another presidential election? Things must be analyzed qualitatively and quantitatively. I was the director of the government program. In it, it is postulated that progress must be made to reach at some point an education budget of 6.5% or 6%, but qualitative aspects must also be referred to. What is being invested in? During the first stage, investment was made in material aspects of childhood, school packages, shoes, children's milk, school uniforms. Today, nearly 40,000 computers have been placed in schools. It is not enough, but this government is going to take the distribution of computers in schools to an important level. This has to be state policy.

People can say to the party: "they told us that they were going to reduce poverty and it has increased, they told us that they were going to reduce the education budget to 6% of GDP and it has not arrived." last one was not said. I was the director of the program and I have always maintained that if you want to make big fiscal changes at once, you will injure the country and the State. They are not possible. We believe in reforms, in processes. We said it at the time, it takes at least three governments to bring investment to that world standard.

In other words, it is not in 2019 that it was intended to be achieved. Well, I don't think that a single government... Let's see: if it took a whole history of 200 years to reach 3%, you can't ask a government to do the same thing in five years.

But the plan said so, minister. No. That is the directionality, bringing investment in education to 6% of GDP.

In 2019 let's not expect to have the six... I wrote the government program and although you are not asking me about taxation, I have always thought that almost all tax reforms in Latin America were spasmodic as conjunctural, they solve temporary problems. The reform that Latin America needs is a long-term, comprehensive and process reform. There are things that a country cannot do all at once, but it can solve them as State policies. When I campaigned, when I was a legislator, I always started my meetings with "I'm not here to promise anything."

But you have to promise something... No, what you have to do is make commitments and fulfill tasks. Not promises.

A commitment of this government was to raise the education budget. Do you think that it will not reach 6, but that it will advance? I believe that progress in the education budget has to be qualitative and quantitative. It's not just how much, but what the new programs are.

What percentage of investment in education would be a fair projection for 2019? If it were possible to lay the foundations and advance to 30% of the program, one child, one computer, that would be enough. And create the bases for the next government to universalize it.

¿No se atreve a hablar de números en las proyecciones?Lo que pasa es que no lo podría hacer con gran propiedad porque como usted me ve, yo soy el albañil de los ciudadanos.

¿Qué número cree que sería lo justo?Cualitativamente estos programas son superiores a mucho de lo que se hizo antes, pero creo que podría acelerarse su desarrollo si se incrementara por lo menos un punto del PIB. Pero hay que asegurar hacia qué programas va. Debe ir a los programas cualitativos y no a la burocracia, aunque debe invertirse también en los maestros y los niños. Y lo que hay que comprimir es el resto del gasto burocrático.